Thomas Jefferson: Futurist
Andrew Davenport 00:00
You can see in Jefferson's own life that he truly believed in change and the possibility of change, and if he didn't, he wouldn't have made the transition from being a loyal subject to being a leading radical in the independence movement.
Andrew Davenport 00:16
In April 1820, Thomas Jefferson worried about the fate of the American Union. The question of whether to admit Missouri into the Union as a slave state or as a free state tore at the nation's seams. For Jefferson, who called for an end to slavery, yet who would enslave people until the day he died, the Missouri question was like a fire bell in the night. It awakened and filled him with terror. Slavery, he wrote, was like holding a wolf by the ear, and we can neither hold him nor safely let him go. Jefferson, long wrestled with the contradictions of his own life. He was the author of a declaration filled with self evident truths that all men were created equal. These Americans were entitled to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness, but at Monticello, he had enslaved servants to attend to his every need, as today's guest, Dr. Andrew Davenport argues, Jefferson's abiding belief in the generations to come gave him hope that Americans would accomplish what the Revolutionary generation did not. So what can we learn from Jefferson's faith in the future? I'm Colleen Shogan, and this is In Pursuit a podcast that explores lessons from America's past to write the history of America's future. Episode Three: Thomas Jefferson: Futurist. Andrew Davenport, welcome to In Pursuit.
Andrew Davenport 01:54
Colleen. Thank you so much for having me.
Colleen Shogan 01:55
We're here to talk about Thomas Jefferson now. Thomas Jefferson's born in 1743 into a wealthy family in Virginia. Tell us a little bit what the Virginia countryside looks like at that point in time.
Andrew Davenport 02:12
Yes, Jefferson's born 1743 in what is now Albemarle County, Virginia was the western frontier of British colonial North America at the time Jefferson was born, really pressed right up against the Blue Ridge Mountains. And on the other side, of course, native territory. And when Jefferson is coming up through adolescence, you know, the western territory beyond the Blue Ridge Mountains is really a war zone, a theater of the Seven Years' War. And so Jefferson has, early on, these inklings of what a Empire of Liberty could look like in in British North America. But he begins, of course, as loyal British subject as were his parents. His mother is born 1721, actually, in London. She is the daughter of an Anglo Virginian family, the Randolphs. She's well descended. His mother is his father a little bit less so from the Jefferson line, who'd been in Virginia longer than the Randolphs had, but had not had the same material success. So when the Jeffersons and the Randolphs come together, it's really advantageous for the Jefferson family especially. And his father was a surveyor. He was very civically engaged locally, but his real fortune comes through through marriage, marriage to Randolph, and also his knowledge of the local land. So as a surveyor, he's a keen land savvy sense, and he's one of the first Europeans to settle in what is now Albemarle County, in this Virginia Piedmont area in in the central part of the Commonwealth, but is now the state, and he has 1000 acre home site, beginning quite early in the 1730s and 40s. Doesn't have doesn't have a home, yet the proper land to fit a proper home that he would like so through one of his cousins by marriage, in exchange for a very tall drink of rum from a colonial Tavern in Williamsburg. Peter Jefferson inherits Shadwell plantation in Albemarle County. It's where he will make the Jefferson home, and it's the home that Jefferson is born into in 1743, so we're talking tobacco as the main crop. And Jefferson is grows up in the slave society in Albemarle County. And, of course, he's born into the gentry.
Colleen Shogan 04:25
Well, it sounds like a very prosperous situation for Thomas Jefferson. He's, you know, a loyal subject of George the Third. What happens to Thomas Jefferson going from that situation to eventually writing the Declaration of Independence?
Andrew Davenport 04:40
It sounds something that you would have been able to predict, and no one could have predicted this rapid, this rapid change, not just in Jefferson's life, but in what will ultimately become the United States. And yes, it is, you know, Jefferson's life is an example of of prosperity. Is born into the into the gentry class. His father is one of the the wealthiest men in in the county, the Jefferson family, and especially the Randolph family, would be considered upper middle class, or upper class, you know, really kind of the leaders of the terms of the economic station of of the colony. But Jefferson's life is really advanced through education, this principled commitment on his part to improve himself through reading, through writing, through socializing, making alliances. Which Jefferson is really serious about his studies. He's really serious about his studies of human nature in particular. And he's reading about Ancient Greece and the fall of Athenian democracy and how it devolved into civil war. And he's reading about the fall of the ancient Roman Republic and how it devolved into tyrannical behavior. And he really thinks when he sees the actions of of the king and his ministers and when others in his class do across the colonies, they're looking at tyrannical behavior. And so because of restrictions against settlement into Western and native lands, because of newly direct taxation in the 1760s because of the dissolution of colonial legislatures, Virginians, people in Massachusetts as well, people up and down the colonies will say, Hey, is what's happening in our colony going on. What's happening with yours, too? And let's exchange notes about how we kind of ward off these growing tyrannical behaviors from that are coming out of London. And so that's how the kind of first steps toward resistance will emerge. With Jefferson writing in some review of the rights of British America, he says that he wants the name of King George the Third not to be a hideous blot on the page of history. He's holding out hope that change will come for George the Third and his ministers, and when it doesn't, that's when Jefferson and others will believe it makes really good common sense for independence.
Colleen Shogan 06:59
Well, just like George Washington, he married a very wealthy widow. So tell us a little bit about Jefferson's wife. We don't often hear much about her because of her illness and her early death.
Andrew Davenport 07:14
Yes, Martha Wales Skelton Jefferson, widowed at an early age, very prominent in the colony, quite wealthy herself, and when her father-in--law dies, Jefferson will, of course, inherit this really large, really large estate, which includes about 130 or so enslaved people and about 10,000 acres across Virginia. But the story that we hear is often just about that inheritance from from Wales. It's not about Martha Wales Skelton Jefferson herself. I think new exciting scholarship shows that she led just as much of a revolutionary life as Jefferson did, and although he burned her correspondence to protect their privacy. We can see that through his letters to other people where he's describing, say, I'm waiting for a letter from for my wife, or please tell my wife this or that, we can see that he's really entrusting some very interesting details about what's happening Second Continental Congress, what's happening elsewhere during the Revolutionary War, to his wife, Mrs. Jefferson. And so while she dies in an early age, in her early to mid 30s, and after, oh geez, about 10 pregnancies or so and the loss of several, several children, we know that she had a lasting influence on Jefferson's life, that their marriage, as he said, was years of uncheckered happiness, but unfortunately, she was not able to live long enough to see just the accomplishments that her husband had, of course, and or be able to care for her family, or see really what the United States would become.
Colleen Shogan 08:54
The revolutionary era for Thomas Jefferson, you write in your essay, for in pursuit is a complicated time for him. In some ways, it's amongst the brightest of times he writes the Declaration of Independence, but there's other aspects of that time period that are very dark for him. Can you talk about those?
Andrew Davenport 09:17
I love this quote from Alan Taylor. He says, "Thomas Jefferson did not want to write the Declaration of Independence." He would have really wanted to have been doing anything else but being but being in Philadelphia in the late spring, early summer of 1776, because he's thinking about his home, Virginia, which is reconsidering it has to make its own constitution. And he's also, of course, thinking about his wife, who has suffered miscarriages, is ill, has a child to care for in Virginia too, and would have been in Philadelphia if she were well enough to and you can see this in in Jefferson's correspondence, that he's his thoughts are elsewhere. They're not exclusively. In Philadelphia. They're on his home, Virginia, his country, as he calls it, and of course, with his family, with his wife. So yes, the being present for the Second Continental Congress, having all this committee work, being able to exchange brilliant ideas with with people from all over, from New Jersey, from Connecticut, from Philadelphia, from from Massachusetts. It sounds fantastic on paper, but it's a ton of work. He's working six days a week, round the clock, burning the candles both ends. And he's assigned the task, of course, of drafting the Declaration of Independence. And of course, he comes through. It takes him 17 days, but at the very same time, he's thinking about what's happening in Virginia and how he can, from afar, influence and also really take care of family matters to the extent that he's able to.
Colleen Shogan 10:54
Now, Thomas Jefferson, unlike some of the other figures we know from this time period, he does not go on to fight in the Revolutionary War. What does he do during this time period, after he writes the declaration?
Andrew Davenport 11:08
Jefferson doesn't see himself fit for military command, and he's he's exactly right. He does not lack for for self awareness. So he's not leading like Washington is on the battlefield. He's not like Hamilton is either as subordinate to Washington. He's a legislator. During this time, he's remaking Virginia as a state, and then he is the second governor of Virginia, following Patrick Henry. And so he leads politically. He doesn't lead militarily, and he'll try to protect to the extent that he's able to state from British Invasion, and he's unsuccessful. But I think anyone as governor in that position would be unsuccessful, given the state of of the coastline, given the the power of the British, British forces, given the state of of the colonial militias, state militias, excuse me, Jefferson didn't and he knew this, that he knew that he was he had an inferior hand. But I think anyone in the position that he found himself in would have really, really struggled, and one thing that you can really fault him for is not staying in office until a next governor could be found. So this period in the summer when Jefferson's term had officially ended, but no governor had been chosen by representatives to take over, and instead of staying in the office, making sure that British forces could be adequately opposed, Jefferson leaves. He flees with his family to try and protect them. And you could fault him for that, I think.
Colleen Shogan 12:39
And Jefferson really feels that criticism. He internalizes that and it says it stays with him his entire life.
Andrew Davenport 12:46
He does it stings him forever and especially be mindful he'll never forget Henry's criticisms of him in the office. But of course, Henry had the same it would have had the very same issues as governor, and he knew the issues that Jefferson faced. I think that's why, in particular, Henry's criticism stung, and Jefferson faced the tribunal and his name is ultimately cleared.
Colleen Shogan 13:10
After the Revolutionary War, Jefferson travels to France. He becomes the American Minister to France. So when he goes abroad, what does he find in Paris? What's the French and European views of the young United States?
Andrew Davenport 13:29
Well, Jefferson finds a great number of contacts and connects connections in France. And at this time, Abigail Adams will call him one of "the choicest ones on the planet." He's known for his conversation, for even though he's plain dressed, he stands out because of his bearing, because of his cosmopolitan learning. And so he represents the United States, both in terms of being an ambassador, but also in terms of just the culture of an American. And so he's representing not just the interests of the States, but also the new nation, which has just been hatched through through war. So he safeguards the commercial interests of the US, principally advocating for the sales of the exports of tobacco and and for whale oil. He helps with a couple of treaties as well. And then he, of course, is looking back across the Atlantic to see how things are going. You know, this is the time of the Articles of Confederation. This is the Confederation Congress. There's a weak, centralized government. And Jefferson knows this. He knows that he can't act to the fullest extent that he possibly could as an ambassador without this kind of centralized government that empowers its representatives. And he's hoping that that the new United States can be safeguarded for the selection of a new constitution, and is advocating for libertiesin a Bill of Rights.
Colleen Shogan 14:51
So after his service in France, the 1790s are a time of really intense. Uh, partisanship, vitriolic politics, and Thomas Jefferson has some very interesting jobs. In the 1790s he's the Secretary of State under George Washington. He's the vice president under John Adams. So explain to us how does Thomas Jefferson he does not agree with Washington and Adams much of the time. How does he serve in these administrations? Does he toe the party line, or does he oppose Washington and Adams?
Andrew Davenport 15:33
You know, I think we have to remember that Jefferson is a dreamer. He's a designer, he's an author, he's an architect, he's a man of ideas, and he's a man of the political arena. He really is a political animal. And so even as Secretary of State, as vice president as well, Jefferson is thinking about how he would want to do things and how he would want to lead a country. Is not the way that he sees Washington's leadership, how he sees Hamilton having Washington's ear, or how Adams ends up leading the nation too. So he does engage in a bit of subterfuge. Let's, let's call it that. And during, during the Washington administration, he's planting stories and in the press, and he's advocating for limited government where centralized power is is not so centralized, for that matter, and for a new nation that is not built on, built up on commercial interests, so to speak, and doesn't have the kind of modern, contemporary financial instruments that we would recognize in our own economy to come. He's hoping for some more influence, and when he sees particularly that he does not have it in the Washington administration, he ends up resigning from the cabinet and returning to Charlottesville his first retirement before running for president in 1796 and ultimately losing to Adams and becoming Vice President, you wouldn't necessarily want Jefferson in your cabinet. In reality, it looks good on paper, but he's far more interested in how, how he would ultimately want to lead.
Andrew Davenport 17:10
So eventually he becomes president in 1800 it's the first real transfer of power, and then he has the opportunity to really implement his vision for the United States. And as you said earlier, his vision is predominantly an agrarian vision for the future of the United States. So talk about that. How does he achieve that, and why does he view the United States as predominantly its future in farming and agriculture?
Andrew Davenport 17:40
Jefferson envisions an Empire of Liberty for the United States, and farmers are central to that vision. And he's not just being a planter himself. Through his reading of in both ancient Greece and in ancient Rome, he recognizes that farmers are among the most virtuous, if not the most virtuous citizens of democracy or Republic, and so he is an advocate for this type of independence, and this agrarian independence, and ultimately, as President, of course, will sign the Louisiana Purchase into being, effectively doubling the size of the United States and opening that land would have been indigenous land for settlement by by Americans. He sees that this democratic republic can expand continentally, and he's one of the first people to espouse that kind of continental vision and Imperial vision of the United States.
Colleen Shogan 18:37
Of course, slavery is an integral part of the future of America as an agrarian society. So tell us about slavery at Monticello, Jefferson's home and Jefferson's views on slavery.
Andrew Davenport 18:53
Well, Jefferson inherits enslaved people through his father from his Shadwell estate here in Albemarle County about 50 enslaved people when he reaches the age of 21 and then he inherits about 130 more from from his father in law, John Wales, upon his death. And so Jefferson will enslave about 600 people, a bit more than that across his lifetime, approximately 180 to 200 people at any given time. And it's not just Monticello. We're talking particularly in the first couple of decades of Jefferson's marriage. He's overseeing plantations, not just in Albemarle County, but further east and Goochland, south below the James in the in the counties of Bedford in in Campbell. And these are vast plantation tracks, mostly of tobacco, but also of wheat. The principal families that Jefferson enslaves are they include the names of Granger, Gillette, Hemmings, Hearns, Evans's, Hughes's and others. And by the end of his life, in 1826, you can look at the names of the people that Jefferson enslaved. Of and you can see that virtually all of them hail from these families that he inherited through John Wales or through his father, Peter Jefferson. So there is a degree of stability here within the family populations. But you know, it's it's a complicated issue, and it's one day we try to look squarely in the face Jefferson as a philosopher of liberty, Jefferson as a slave holder and Jefferson as a critic of slavery across his life, recognizing that, as he did, that slavery was a moral evil, but is one that he cannot rid himself of.
Colleen Shogan 20:32
There's like you said, there Jefferson is full of of seemingly contradictions. What about the issue of emancipation, because as Jefferson grows older and time advances, slavery expands, and certainly some parts in the United States, but it also diminishes in other parts of the United States. So what was Jefferson's view on emancipation?
Andrew Davenport 20:56
Colleen, Hamilton has this quote about Jefferson, that he's a "contemptible hypocrite," that he's paradoxical. And you know, I think that those insights, let's call them from from Hamilton, Jefferson, would recognize himself in those statements. I don't think that, think that they would cause him more or further introspection. He did that work throughout his life, he knew that he would be judged for being in enslaver. He knew that he would be judged for for his his racist views. And you know, ultimately, Jefferson entrusts the project of emancipation, which he saw, especially in the years after the declaration of independence beginning to take hold in in New England in particular. And he saw some halting progress in Virginia as well, until a Manumission law in 1806 made it more challenging to to free enslaved people. And he recognizes that slavery is something of a political impossibility for his time, and he will not expand the type of political capital that could have swayed the majority of a populace in Virginia, a man of Jefferson stature, expending political capital to criticize slavery and to try and bring about it, and could have done some serious good in the state. He doesn't choose to do that. He'll criticize the institution privately during his public life and then ultimately in retirement as well. And what he'll do instead is entrusting the project for the next generation. And you know, that's an example of Jefferson kicking the can down the road. He knew that that would be the case, but he also did trust people to do the right thing, ultimately. And it took long enough, and it took a terribly violent American Civil War to bring about that change. And Jefferson had predicted that, but ultimately, that is what happened
Andrew Davenport 23:00
With our project with In Pursuit, one of the things we're trying to do is trying to uncover what lesson we can learn with each individual that we think about and talk about. So tell us, what lesson can we learn from Thomas Jefferson?
Andrew Davenport 23:17
Yeah, I, you know, I wrote the essay about Jefferson's dreams of the future, his faith and some of it's quite naive that the world would continue to progress. And you can see in Jefferson's own life that he truly believed in change and the possibility of change. And if he didn't, he wouldn't have made the transition from being a loyal subject to being a leading radical in the independence movement, he wouldn't have been able to envision the kind of different world than that he did. So it's about having a sense of optimism for things to come. Instead of having a sense of of total dread or pessimism. I think Jefferson teaches us how to think positively about about the future, and that's a tremendous gift. And in spite of all his contradictions, really the massive contradictions, I think his faith in the future is his most relatable characteristic.
Colleen Shogan 24:17
And why is it important for us to think as a futurist in a democracy?
Colleen Shogan 24:23
We've got to have belief that this thing can keep going, and it's been going for 250, years. Democracy is not perfect, but it's the best form of government that we have, and we've got to have faith that whoever is behind us can carry the mission forward. That's very Jeffersonian. The ball of liberty has to keep going around the globe.
Colleen Shogan 24:43
Andrew Davenport, thank you so much for joining us for In Pursuit. Thank you, Colleen.
Colleen Shogan 24:49
To read Andrew Davenport's essay on Thomas Jefferson and to enjoy other great In Pursuit essays and podcasts, visit inpursuit.org. In Pursuit with Colleen Shogun is a podcast by More Perfect. The series is written and produced by Jim Ambuske. Our theme music is Kleos, by Charlie Ryan, audio mixing by Curt Dahl of CD Squared. Please rate and review the show on your favorite podcast app and tell us which Americans inspire you.